Training/Course Information

Re: Training/Course Information

Postby yoshi » Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:50 pm

Indeed, the vultures are circling, but I will forego discussion here. Saw this on the O4 board/results:
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2015 ... map=%5B%5D

-‘all in’ or ‘all out’: It has to be one or the other. Each of our communities will be crushed if we continue to ride the fence. All in means one community/one designator, not a corps. All in means we all compete together. This approach is potentially harmful for technical proficiency (think Army/AF intel - that's what it is), but it’s the only way forward. ‘All out’ means going back to single communities (there is no going back). The biggest barrier to the coming together of the IDC in a functional way is at the Flag officer and CAPT level. Each of the communities work to solidify/build their organizations first (their first responsibility) and follow the IDC plan second. This is probably why we had IDC TYCOM work which (apparently) no one wanted and ultimately resulted in URLs making IDFOR. Community leaders are appropriately focused on operational missions, resources, and standing. It makes sense to do so in the current construct. After all, THEIR RESPONSIBILITY IS PRESERVING THE COMMUNITY(!). The IDC pie is so big and contains each of our communities' missions and functions, all of which are critical to the Navy. Our community leaders publicly endorse the IDC approach but often must work against it to enable the billets, resources, and community functions. It is, frankly, pretty demoralizing, and some see this and vote with their feet. There are others who watch, learn, and form an opinion of the IDC based on what they see (such as this course, which probably looks misplaced to most JOs). We have to be better. Ways to do so: 1) Make the four communities one community. 2) Move IDC community management from FCC/NAVMETOCOM/ONI/PACOM/OPNAV to IDFOR. Community management is administrative, not operational. ID FOR seems a natural migration destination, as it’s the only administrative command we have in the IDC (all the others are SUPER-operational, just ask - sorry :-) couldn't resist). 3) Fully integrate ALL skills into IDC commands. I haven't yet seen a job in any of our communities which couldn't be learned and done by an officer from another community (although perhaps not as well). Yes, I know some would suffer, but identify those, mark them, and move on. I don't see a lot of officers pushing buttons, wiring networks, breaking code. Rather, I see them inspiring others, preparing others, and managing the approaches. Besides, we already accepted decreasing technical proficiency of the officer corps when we chose this road several years ago. With this, we would have sufficient collaboration to produce a cohesive, holistic IDC product/value. It is at this point the course makes sense. Right now, we have 4 communities, each with their own subordinate commands dedicated to the work of their singular community function. Inside of these commands, all our officers are groomed for that specific community function, not the IDC. So, we educate our people on the IDC while training/working them in only 1/4 of the IDC (one community). At what point do we expect the education to overcome practice/experience in the formation of our officers? Finally, after 17 years of practice, they are ready to cross detail. Given this approach (which is, to be kind, intellectually confusing), the IDBC and IDMCC are superfluous for the majority of officers, as most won't make it to O5 Command (likely the first chance to cross detail). Still, there are great stories of collaboration and there is a common culture to build. You just can't do it at ONI, FCC, METOCOM, etc with the way they are currently built. You have to desegregate the commands to broaden their IDC horizons. The best examples of collaboration are on staffs (particularly afloat or in one of one jobs), in my opinion, because you HAVE to work together. It isn't about your degree, your billet history, etc. You have to know what you are supposed to and bring it via other people every day. Practiced integration and shared hardship with other IDC one-of-ones breaks ground for the seeds of culture.

-juice being worth the squeeze. It is hard to justify the course against so many more important (from an operational perspective) training priorities. What does the JO see: OPNAV couldn't find a few hundred thousand for training his/her community really needs, but it spent more than that on this course? The JO doesn’t possess the organizational view of OPNAV and doesn’t have that as one of his/her priorities. I get it, you do have to have a balance, and culture is important. In the JO mind, those who decide how money should be spent prioritized this course over other training needs (whether intentionally or on accident). Thus, OPNAV is potentially viewed as obtuse. The decision isn’t wrong, but it shapes the JO’s perception with respect to the IDC, OPNAV, and priorities. OPNAV doesn’t owe anyone an explanation and the decision was/is well within their purview. However, maybe it would be beneficial to consider the JO perspective, given efforts to build the IDC, and communicate. Perhaps providing updates and communiques from the IDC to its JOs in an understandable format (not strategic 5 year plans for Battlespace Awareness/Integrated Fires/Assured C2) could be helpful. The lack of communication is damning, and again, demoralizing. We have to be better. The IDC is not yet sufficiently brought together, structured, or prepared to make good on either the IDBC or IDMCC. The issues (community priorities versus IDC) have to be fixed. The community leaders have to be able to operate in a manner other than zero sum in competition with other communities for dad's/mom's money and power. In my opinion, this course is putting the cart ahead of the horse with respect to where we are with IDC. Adding insult to injury, we used the most wasteful, expensive, and inflexible option for training. I don’t think the course is a bad idea, but the sucking chest wound still needs treated.
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Re: Training/Course Information

Postby COMEVIL » Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:26 am

Yoshi pretty much nails it.

I think the Baby SWOS analogy more closely fits Flight School for Aviators, BUDS for SEALS, and maybe IWBC for us Cryppies (.....can't say as I never went).

You can't force a culture to happen with a 2 week course. It has to occur naturally out of necessity.
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Re: Training/Course Information

Postby CNO Guy » Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:35 pm

There is a lot of healthy dialogue about the aviation community's struggles with last year's O4 board, a particularly good blog post is here:

http://www.askskipper.com/2015/02/18/ch ... n-process/

The comments from within the affected community offer a lot of lessons learned to us as we play with the idea of URL vs RL and all the decision would entail, we would be foolish to not use this as a good Use Case.
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Re: Training/Course Information

Postby Sum1 » Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:11 pm

What's the struggle? O-3s are promoted to O-4 vacancies or projected vacancies. That drives recruitment.

Sounds like the aviation community made some errors while determining what their need was going to be at the O-4 level and recruited too many people.

The only way the URL vs RL thing could come into play is opening the IDC up to direct accessions from normally URL commissioning routes (NROTC, USNA, etc).
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Re: Training/Course Information

Postby COMEVIL » Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:28 pm

Sum1 wrote:What's the struggle? O-3s are promoted to O-4 vacancies or projected vacancies. That drives recruitment.


Wrong...mostly. Remember, at the URL board there are no community (Aviation, SWO, etc) specific vacancies, only URL-wide vacancies. Check out the board convening order where it states Percent to Select. All URL are lumped into a single category.

Sum1 wrote:Sounds like the aviation community made some errors while determining what their need was going to be at the O-4 level and recruited too many people.


Wrong. See above.

Sum1 wrote:The only way the URL vs RL thing could come into play is opening the IDC up to direct accessions from normally URL commissioning routes (NROTC, USNA, etc).


Wrong. If we shift to the URL the same "anomaly" could happen to the IDC.

The point here is that if we become a part of the URL that assumes competition for advancement with all other URL communities. In this case, the board leaned heavily towards choosing SWOs and Submariners, which they have a right to do. Unfortunately, it was at the detriment of Aviators, and specifically NFOs. Is the current system the best way to promote talent? Probably not. Do we (the IDC) want to jump feet first into that system? Hell no.
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Re: Training/Course Information

Postby 12345qwert » Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:41 pm

To follow-up on the IDBC training discussion, reached out to the POCs on the msg and the IW OCM today (who were all very helpful) and was told that the course will actually be three weeks (not two) with the extra week being focused on leadership training - and that the detailers will start writing the course into IDC accessions' orders after the pilot - here's the rest:

"Unfortunately there is no flexibility to the timing of the course at this time as it has been developed as a basic IDC introductory course to be delivered prior to the student attending their respective basic course. The syllabus provides a 50k foot view of each of the communities within the IDC and then spends a week on division officer leadership which most of received prior to attending our basic schools. FYSA, because the course is meant solely as an introduction there is no intention to use this course to sign off PQS, it's not designed for that.

(your question "introduction to IDC community before arriving at first command" vs "building in-depth knowledge about each community and how they work together after officers gain some experience at their first command") In my opinion you can get the latter in the IDMCC. The current course will help you get there however, we are revamping the IDMCC course making it a blended course of seminar and performance, highlighted by a capstone event. Once this course is online I would highly recommend taking it as it will enhance your 0-4 milestone tour."

Hope this helps!
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Re: Training/Course Information

Postby Sum1 » Sat Feb 21, 2015 12:52 am

COMEVIL wrote:
Sum1 wrote:What's the struggle? O-3s are promoted to O-4 vacancies or projected vacancies. That drives recruitment.


Wrong...mostly. Remember, at the URL board there are no community (Aviation, SWO, etc) specific vacancies, only URL-wide vacancies. Check out the board convening order where it states Percent to Select. All URL are lumped into a single category.

Sum1 wrote:Sounds like the aviation community made some errors while determining what their need was going to be at the O-4 level and recruited too many people.


Wrong. See above.

Sum1 wrote:The only way the URL vs RL thing could come into play is opening the IDC up to direct accessions from normally URL commissioning routes (NROTC, USNA, etc).


Wrong. If we shift to the URL the same "anomaly" could happen to the IDC.


My mistake. I thought that paradigm was only enjoyed by LDO and CWO promotion boards. But thank you for the gentle and professionally communicated nudge towards the correct info.
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Re: Training/Course Information

Postby COMEVIL » Sat Feb 21, 2015 1:15 pm

Sum1 wrote:My mistake. I thought that paradigm was only enjoyed by LDO and CWO promotion boards. But thank you for the gentle and professionally communicated nudge towards the correct info.


I've never been accused of being gentle...
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Re: Training/Course Information

Postby VQ Bubba » Sat Feb 21, 2015 5:56 pm

Ok...here is what I think our training continuum looks like, once this course comes on-line. I don't have the latest in front of me and I'm likely missing a great deal, so would appreciate any and all corrections:

USNA / OCS / ROTC time
IWBC: 8 (?) weeks long (no PQS impact; basic introduction to Information Warfare topics)
IDBC: 3 weeks long (no PQS impact; basic introduction to IDC and DIVO life)
First Tour:
0-18 Months qualification to IWO (100/200/300 PQS accomplished via local NIOC training dept)
TBD Months to qualify DSO (if required/applicable)
0-36 Months qualification time to IDWO (100/200/300 PQS accomplished via local NIOC training dept)
As required:
SERE / Aft Observer Training / Aviation Physiology Training
Afloat Collection Manager Course
Cryptologic Resource Coordinator course
Upon promotion to LCDR (ish)
Information Dominance Corps Mid-Career Course (no PQS impact; advanced introduction to IDC)
Upon promotion to CDR (ish)
Information Dominance Corps Senior Leadership Symposium (no PQS impact; senior-level socialization)
Upon selection for XO/CO
PXO/PCO training
Upon selection as DIWC
????

The goal...once we get this current version corrected...is to then work through we would want to see in place...IE where we want to spend our precious resources and training/instruction. We can talk about OPNAV or IDFOR making decisions in a vacuum...perhaps we can provide some pressurization.

I suspect the IDBC is probably not slotted at the right time...but it's hard to state that without a full understanding of what training we really have...and what course of instruction is included.

Notice, as well, that I've left out any Cyber-specific training...completely out of ignorance, to be honest.
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Re: Training/Course Information

Postby Mjölnir » Sat Feb 21, 2015 7:01 pm

I have been gone from a NIOC for almost 5 years, when did IWBC - stop forwarding a letter with how the course of instruction transfers / covers some of the IWO PQS?
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