FY-09 Accessions

FY-09 Accessions

Postby IW OCM » Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:57 pm

The FY-09 Accession Plan has been approved and the quotas for our community (very short of what we need to "get healthy") are as follows:

USNA - 2
NROTC - 2
STA 21 - 6
OCS - 18
Total Direct Accessions - 28

Attrites - 30
Lat Transfer Board - 7
Total Lateral Gains - 37

Total New IWOs - 65

SWO (IW Option) via OCS - 5

This is different from FY-08 in that our OCS quotas dropped by 10 and our attrites grew by 15. A few other subtle nuances, but we can work with those.
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Postby webmaster » Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:35 pm

What was the reason the OCS quotas dropped?
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Postby Twidget » Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:17 am

My guess would be the same thing that drives almost everything we do: cost.

There's a pretty steady flow of attrites from Aviation, Nuke, etc. If you pay x number of dollars to educate and train those people with Navy dollars(NROTC, S2A, Academy, OCS), you want to keep as many of them as possible. Many of them probably would choose to redesignate if given the choice, but without those higher number of attrite slots available in IW and other communities, there's just no place to put them in today's "right-sized" fleet.

I think OCS will always have plenty of applicants as a gap-filler if the end of the FY is approaching and there haven't been enough attrites to fill the IW ranks, but that's just speculation too.
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Postby Sum1 » Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:11 am

Only 18 slots for all the OCS applicants, both in-fleet and from the civilian side? Wow. That doesn't leave much room for the in-fleet enlisted sailor looking to leverage his CT experience in the IW community.

We've all heard about the "problems" at the O-4/O-5 level supposedly caused by the fact that the IW community traditionally sees a lot of former enlisted folks crossing over (and by the fact that billeting for senior O-3s/O-4s/O-5s gets wide open thanks to the way the NSA requests people). I'm curious if there's any feedback to be had concerning the preference for off-the-street OCS'ers vs. in-service OCS'ers in the IW community, and if that translates to a preference during selections.

That question might be a bit too sensitive for an internet message board, but it's something that's been debated pretty heatedly, despite the fact that I haven't seen any hard evidence supporting the argument one way or another.

*edit* Also, are there any mandates we should follow should we wish to share the basic quota information among our Sailors or others interested in applying to the community?
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Postby mrsaturn » Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:43 am

Sum1 wrote:Only 18 slots for all the OCS applicants, both in-fleet and from the civilian side? Wow. That doesn't leave much room for the in-fleet enlisted sailor looking to leverage his CT experience in the IW community.


I do not see LDOs included in that number.

As far as I know a CT can go through...

Academy - 2 (if you are RL)
STA- 6
OCS- 18
ROTC- I must admit im not sure how it works.

24/28 at least for a direct accession.

Sounds like plenty of wiggle room for CTs to get in or I am grossly misunderstanding.
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Postby Sum1 » Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:05 am

mrsaturn wrote:I do not see LDOs included in that number.

As far as I know a CT can go through...

Academy - 2 (if you are RL)
STA- 6
OCS- 18
ROTC- I must admit im not sure how it works.

24/28 at least for a direct accession.

Sounds like plenty of wiggle room for CTs to get in or I am grossly misunderstanding.


USNA - 2 - Of roughly 900 graduates every year, the chances of a prior-enlisted CT getting one of those two slots is astronomical.
STA-21 - 6 - Better option now that you can directly apply for IW. Previously, you were restricted to URL communities, but I've been told by recent STA-21 graduates that it's a bit easier to get into IW now via this route.
OCS - 18 - Route where you can actually choose and be selected for the program of your choice. CT's who wish to stay in the community have a guaranteed slot if they apply and get accepted. Experience stays in the community, rather than being forced into a URL community and (maybe) coming back in via a lateral transfer.
NROTC - 2 - Like the Academy, graduates are funneled into URL communities unless medical or otherwise disqualified. This program is only for civilian applicants (as far as I know) with the merger of the various in-service ascension programs into STA-21.

If you're speaking strictly of enlisted CTs changing over to the IWO side, OCS and STA-21 are really the only programs you should be looking at. If you're talking to a CT who wants so be an IW and telling them to apply to the Naval Academy, you're doing them a disservice.
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Postby webmaster » Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:56 pm

mrsaturn wrote:
Sounds like plenty of wiggle room for CTs to get in or I am grossly misunderstanding.


I echo Sum1 on this. The focus of effort as far as assessions are concernted is going to be the URL. I understand this but I wish there were more opportunities for people coming from ROTC and the Academy in the RL communities. That's why the fall in OCS numbers trouble me. I know there is the opportunity to lat transfer but still...
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Postby mrsaturn » Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:55 am

Sum1 wrote:OCS - 18 - Route where you can actually choose and be selected for the program of your choice. CT's who wish to stay in the community have a guaranteed slot if they apply and get accepted...


So if they are guaranteed a slot through OCS, do the number of CT's who wish to stay in the community and become an IW officer ever exceed the amount of OCS slots?

Sum1 wrote:If you're speaking strictly of enlisted CTs changing over to the IWO side, OCS and STA-21 are really the only programs you should be looking at. If you're talking to a CT who wants so be an IW and telling them to apply to the Naval Academy, you're doing them a disservice.


Absolutely, I didnt include ROTC or USNA numbers because they tend to go URL.


What the change says to me the OCS slot cut will mean OCS grads with no IW/CT experience are going to have to compete more, more attrites are coming in and we have a net gain of 5 more officers a year.
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Postby Sum1 » Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:46 am

mrsaturn wrote:So if they are guaranteed a slot through OCS, do the number of CT's who wish to stay in the community and become an IW officer ever exceed the amount of OCS slots?


If I'm reading your question accurately, you are asking if the number of CT applications to OCS from all of the enterprise facilities around the world for an entire fiscal year exceed the alloted 18 slots???

Yes, absolutely, without a doubt. I'm hoping I'm missing something here.

mrsaturn wrote:What the change says to me the OCS slot cut will mean OCS grads with no IW/CT experience are going to have to compete more, more attrites are coming in and we have a net gain of 5 more officers a year.


Wouldn't you rather an IW officer be someone who chose that community over another to begin with? I know in terms of USNA and NROTC some of the attrites will be folks who would probably have chosen IW in the first place had it been an option (I would hope), but there will also be plenty of folks disgruntled that they couldn't hack it as aviators or Spec War guys. Maybe it's the former enlisted in me, but I know how many competent guys and girls are walking around who would give their left foot to be an IW officer, but their number just doesn't come up when they submit a package (or the 2nd package).

I can see the argument both ways... a net gain of 5 is still a net gain... but considering the route I took to a commission and how hard I worked for it, it just seems like this plan puts even more pressure on the Sailor who knows exactly what he wants to do and commits by applying directly to this program.
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Postby phrogpilot73 » Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:13 am

Sum1 wrote:Wouldn't you rather an IW officer be someone who chose that community over another to begin with? I know in terms of USNA and NROTC some of the attrites will be folks who would probably have chosen IW in the first place had it been an option (I would hope), but there will also be plenty of folks disgruntled that they couldn't hack it as aviators or Spec War guys.

I know that I'm talking out of my lane (since I'm a Marine, a Reserve Marine, and a helicopter pilot to boot), but my guess as to accession from USNA and NROTC has to do with this: "they" (and I really don't know who "they" is) think that URL=long term career. So that's why they want USNA/NROTC to pursue URL first, if they can't - RL.

Truth be told (as an Academy grad), I had no idea what IW was until I met my wife. I still have no idea what you do (other than that it's similar to RadBn). Getting a quota at USNA as an instructor/company officer might be a start. The problem is that there are all kinds of RL guys at USNA, just no IW's. How is a mid going to make an educated decision about his career facing RL, if he only knows what the Academy shows him?

I also think that a lot of the individuals that are "disgruntled that they couldn't hack it..." are probably going to be your career guys. The IW officers that I have met that came in via Lat Transfer or attrite just want to be Naval Officers. That's why they're sticking around - not because they're IW Officers/JAGs/Aviators/SWOs, but because they want to lead sailors. Doesn't the IW community deserve officers like that as much as the URL world?

Again, I'm just a dumb Marine helo guy, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
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