FY-17 Zone Message

Re: FY-17 Zone Message

Postby yoshi » Thu Feb 18, 2016 5:05 pm

It's not just a problem from the past when folks followed the community advice/direction 10+ years ago. The community/Navy continues to perpetuate the problem TODAY by sending many officers through the MA programs at the War Colleges. We are creating a stratified wardroom. Either educational option is great for the individual, but bad for the Navy and the community, as ultimately the selectee pool will be drawn disproportionally heavily from the upper strata (as perceived through the precept). The community is, or stands to become, even more geographically, experientially, and (now) educationally insulated. Although perhaps unfortunate for some individuals, the true losers are the Navy and the community. Again, I think it's fair to describe this as unethical.

With respect to the SWO officer's analogy, it kind of makes sense, if one assumes the STEM degree is "necessary equipment" for mission success. Naturally, I disagree with community leadership and believe getting along with people and understanding processes are more important than STEM or any other degree requirement. It is another reason the URL looks at our community and pigeon holes it as something different than the rest of the Navy. Things like this, along with MIP/NIP, P2/P3, DIRSUP, weird TYCOM, etc, further cement their perspective as do our very own words. "But we're different, we're different, we're different" is not understood by a Navy increasingly reliant upon our skills (our claim). That Navy has to recognize who we are beyond the PDIBs, BZs, and science projects. We must work/advance in the non-cyber Navy domain, also. Perhaps NCWDG, where we've got lot's of EE STEM folks and money, could deliver something. I'm sure the cryppies at OPNAV would rejoice in a defensible position.

We aren't different, we aren't special, and we don't need any different an advanced degree than any other community. If this were true, those billets would be in the EDO designator, not in a regular line community. We need to orient our community's personnel and efforts to provide what the Navy needs rather than what FCC/C10F and CYBERCOM need (they are not the same). Realigning to the maritime service would be helpful.
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Re: FY-17 Zone Message

Postby LIVINGIW » Thu Feb 18, 2016 5:34 pm

Anyone remember the 'short courses' that used to be offered at NPS back in the simpler time of 1610 Officers? I sure would love to see a STEM/Short Coure of sorts offered back at NPS for our Community. I offer NPS since the faculty, infrastructure, lodging, investment, are all already there. You could ensure they are accredited and award a graduate cert for the series, then this would align to the CO about advanced STEM education (graduate degree or certificate) and could help level the playing field for those who did not obtain a STEM Masters degree.

Maybe a seperate EW, SIGINT, and CYBER short course? One for each of our core competencies, focused on new/emerging/relevant issues? One week each? 7 hours a day, 35 hours of class... Masters level with a cert at the end?
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Re: FY-17 Zone Message

Postby Sum1 » Thu Feb 18, 2016 5:49 pm

Stalwart wrote:
Sum1 wrote: Agree, but for those who already have Masters degrees but DO want to pursue another on the Navy's dime, the precept change has been evaluated at least one time as grounds to receive a TA waiver. That means potentially two Navy-funded Masters degrees.


I received my denial for a waiver from a second (new command) ESO last week ... so I think it is dependent on the approving authority ... unfortunately.


Your ESO has nothing to do with it (or shouldn't). There's a waiver template on the Navy Tuition Assistance website. That is generated, signed, endorsed by your Commanding Officer, and sent to the PERS code that deals with Navy TA. Someone there signs off on it and makes a determination on whether or not you receive a waiver to pursue a second Navy funded masters.

I can forward you my packet if you PM me your info (if I haven't done that already.... I've sent it to a couple people).
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FY-17 Zone Message

Postby LIVINGIW » Thu Feb 18, 2016 8:20 pm

SUM1- Out of curiosity, what STEM program are you pursuing?

STALWART/All,
I was fortunate to attend NPS, but was debating the NDU Govt Information Leadership program. Fully funded for active duty military. No TA needed... Not STEM in traditional sense of the hard sciences, but could be an option to other online/part time programs. It is an MS degree program and you can specialize in Cyber security, Cyber Leadership, and others. Check out the NDU icollege website if interested...

I have no first hand knowledge of the program, just the fact it exists. Some course offerings look pretty interesting...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Re: FY-17 Zone Message

Postby yoshi » Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:28 pm

I'm exploring the NDU program as well. I'm enrolled, but did so too close to the beginning of the semester; consequently none of the classes I needed had seats. If you do pursue it, be sure to sign up for the classes you want/need early. A co-worker enrolled and took one class, but felt work experience had already provided the same knowledge. For him, it was a lot of busy work without new learning. As my work history is different, I don't think I'll have the same feeling. I'm hoping it will be enlightening, informative, and potentially applicable.
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Re: FY-17 Zone Message

Postby Sum1 » Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:45 pm

LIVINGIW wrote:SUM1- Out of curiosity, what STEM program are you pursuing?

STALWART/All,
I was fortunate to attend NPS, but was debating the NDU Govt Information Leadership program. Fully funded for active duty military. No TA needed... Not STEM in traditional sense of the hard sciences, but could be an option to other online/part time programs. It is an MS degree program and you can specialize in Cyber security, Cyber Leadership, and others. Check out the NDU icollege website if interested...

I have no first hand knowledge of the program, just the fact it exists. Some course offerings look pretty interesting...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm currently in my second of six classes (they're 6 credits each and a ton of work spread out over only 12 weeks) in the Cybersecurity MS program with UMUC. I looked into NDU and other options, but since I'm an O-3 I didn't meet the rank requirement. Before I had a discussion with the detailer I was taking Calc through AMU to improve my APC in order to qualify for a NPS slot, but the timing is such that it's no longer viable. Hence, second choice was pursue more off duty graduate education (already have a MBA done off-duty using TA from back when I was enlisted/early officer days).

Oh the irony if a more dramatic shift occurs with our community than just a name change, and anyone with particular emphasis in SIGINT/EW ends up pulled and inserted into Intel/1830. Would that mean we'd have to go back to school AGAIN for a LREC specialty masters? :)
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Re: FY-17 Zone Message

Postby Mjölnir » Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:49 pm

Sum1 wrote:
Stalwart wrote:
Sum1 wrote: Agree, but for those who already have Masters degrees but DO want to pursue another on the Navy's dime, the precept change has been evaluated at least one time as grounds to receive a TA waiver. That means potentially two Navy-funded Masters degrees.


I received my denial for a waiver from a second (new command) ESO last week ... so I think it is dependent on the approving authority ... unfortunately.


Your ESO has nothing to do with it (or shouldn't). There's a waiver template on the Navy Tuition Assistance website. That is generated, signed, endorsed by your Commanding Officer, and sent to the PERS code that deals with Navy TA. Someone there signs off on it and makes a determination on whether or not you receive a waiver to pursue a second Navy funded masters.

I can forward you my packet if you PM me your info (if I haven't done that already.... I've sent it to a couple people).


Let me rephrase, ESO recommended disapproval, Navy element (CO) did not endorse based on recommendation of ESO. Am at a new command and almost done settling ... may reengage.

But yes ... PM inbound. Also ... my home email address is in my signature line ... kind of fails at anonymity, but I don't say anything here I wouldn't say in a crowd.
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Re: FY-17 Zone Message

Postby Sum1 » Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:21 pm

Stalwart wrote:
Let me rephrase, ESO recommended disapproval, Navy element (CO) did not endorse based on recommendation of ESO. Am at a new command and almost done settling ... may reengage.

But yes ... PM inbound. Also ... my home email address is in my signature line ... kind of fails at anonymity, but I don't say anything here I wouldn't say in a crowd.


I'd love to know why the ESO would recommend disapproval... for that matter, why would ANYONE recommend a waiver disapproval when the actual approving authority holds all the money AND all the authority is beyond me. That actually pisses me off.

I sent my TA waiver package to you already last November (to your regular address). Let me know what a good work address is to use so that I can encrypt all my PII. Also, if you sent a PM, I didn't get it.
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Last edited by Sum1 on Fri Feb 19, 2016 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: FY-17 Zone Message

Postby Mjölnir » Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:32 pm

Sum1 wrote:I'd love to know why the ESO would recommend disapproval... for that matter, why would ANYONE recommend a waiver disapproval when the actual approving authority holds all the money AND all the authority is beyond me.


From the ESO: I already have two masters degrees and can't use TA for a third. I get there is a way to get a waiver, am hoping that 'the Community' could publish some type of guidance / amplification on the situation based on the new criteria for "best and most fully qualified" so that we did not have to rely on blogs or unofficial forums to get the word out on how to get this right.


Sum1 wrote:to your NIPR address


all you had to say ...
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Last edited by Mjölnir on Fri Feb 19, 2016 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: FY-17 Zone Message

Postby Sum1 » Fri Feb 19, 2016 3:33 pm

Stalwart wrote:
Sum1 wrote:I'd love to know why the ESO would recommend disapproval... for that matter, why would ANYONE recommend a waiver disapproval when the actual approving authority holds all the money AND all the authority is beyond me.


From the ESO: I already have two masters degrees and can't use TA for a third.


Did you ask to see the document or instruction that says that? There is absolutely no restriction like that because the restriction is normally that TA can't be used for even a second masters degree, regardless of who paid for it (mom/dad, you, Navy-funded, TA, GI Bill, etc.). The waiver process is in place to account for exactly this scenario... when professional requirements change (occurs most often with lat transfers).

Get an email from CDR Smith using the same template I'm about to send you (after you send me a digitally signed email back!). If you put that in with a short justification and get past this idiot of an ESO you should be fine.
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