FY-14 O-4 Selection Board

Re: FY-14 O-4 Selection Board

Postby JMG » Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:16 am

Venom0 wrote: if you are a Commander who KNOWS you won't get picked for O6 (because you failed to select for O5 milestone), you should get out at 20.


Wow. Just curious if I missed the <sarcasm> tag or if you are just trying to stir the pot. If you are serious about this comment then I really and truly feel sorry for you....and any sailor you lead.
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Re: FY-14 O-4 Selection Board

Postby arvizo » Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:07 pm

JMG wrote:
Venom0 wrote: if you are a Commander who KNOWS you won't get picked for O6 (because you failed to select for O5 milestone), you should get out at 20.


Wow. Just curious if I missed the <sarcasm> tag or if you are just trying to stir the pot. If you are serious about this comment then I really and truly feel sorry for you....and any sailor you lead.


There are some O5s out there hanging around just to collect a paycheck. And since statutory retirement for O5 is 28 years, that could end up being quite a few paychecks. I'm speaking in general, not for any specific designator.
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Re: FY-14 O-4 Selection Board

Postby Mjölnir » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:57 pm

COMEVIL wrote:The following IW LDO's were selected for LCDR as well:

Allen
Haley
Harper
Howard
Jenkins
Little
Ludwick
Noorgard
Ross
Tichenor

Congrats!


Congratulations indeed. That was my oversight leaving them off my initial post. No slight inplied or intended.
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Re: FY-14 O-4 Selection Board

Postby LIVINGIW » Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:47 pm

We all have a responsibility to step aside when our time is up, whether driven by choice or circumstance. We have seen this many times with our flags and likely will soon see again. If you have made choices that limit your upward mobility or if the Navy deems others more worthy of promotion and pass you over, retire and let others move up. Not a knock on your service, sacrifice, or contribution, merely on your potential. We promote and on-ramp folks based on need... IWOCM can speak more to this. Ultimately the Navy can/will force this hand by capping high year tenure and forcing retirement... And hopefully that happens sooner rather than later.
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Re: FY-14 O-4 Selection Board

Postby VQ Bubba » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:11 pm

Since the thread is LCDR selections, it is worthwhile to take a look at "all the deadwood" in the O-5 ranks that are keeping these outstanding LTs from picking up LCDR.

Note: I'm working off an old (Feb 2013) IWOL...ie before the most recent O-6 and O-5 results were released...mainly because that is the latest that I have right now ;)

I see a a total of 13 AZ O-5 officers...out of a population of approx 125 officers (current O-5s and selectees)...that is, hmm...doing the math and let me carry the 1, is...oh...about 10% of the population.

All but one had less than 23 years of commissioned service, meaning that in most cases they still had some hope of O-6 or were finishing up their tours after exhausting that hope. Everyone else had left the Navy for (hopefully) greener pastures.

So...both for those serious about the idea of all the AZ retiring post haste and those kidding about it in order to make way for the next generation...just who is it that needs to go RIGHT NOW?

We honestly have a fairly shallow AZ bench...at least compared to the numbers that Aviation seemed to have on the roster.

I know this is the internet where thinking out loud without a great deal of editorial discretion is the norm...but beyond the normal frustration of those not getting selected...again, where/when/whom do we cut?

Some years we will leave outstanding people unpromoted and some years we will promote those with records that would not normally screen...but by and large a 70% promotion rate is probably about right.

After all, if we promoted 80-85% of the population you just might allow in a number of officers who won't be competitive for O-6 or a high-paying civilian job and decide to hang on to the bitter end and drive down the promotion rate for the next next generation of officers. YG05 and 06 might be upset now but just think how YG 10 and 11 will feel.

I haven't done the same research on the CAPTS...but if it was me doing the promoting, I'd like to get a couple of tours out of my new CAPTS...and that means they stay until 25-27 years of commissioned service. Again, using the same dated IWOL...I see about 10 or fewer from a population of 50+ that exceed that service time.

Food for thought...
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Re: FY-14 O-4 Selection Board

Postby arvizo » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:41 pm

VQ Bubba wrote:I haven't done the same research on the CAPTS...but if it was me doing the promoting, I'd like to get a couple of tours out of my new CAPTS...and that means they stay until 25-27 years of commissioned service. Again, using the same dated IWOL...I see about 10 or fewer from a population of 50+ that exceed that service time.

Food for thought...


It's probably less of an issue at the O6 level because the years between O6 promotion and O6 high year tenure is shorter than O5 promotion to O5 HYT. I remember meeting a particular O5 when I got to my first tour as a new Ensign. Then many years later when I was a LCDR select, I met the same person who was still an O5 on active duty.
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Re: FY-14 O-4 Selection Board

Postby yoshi » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:16 pm

Interesting conversation - not sure who is right on this one. I think the issue was captured appropriately with: "Some years we will leave outstanding people unpromoted and some years we will promote those with records that would not normally screen". That isn't exactly the recipe for sustained, superior community performance and probaly what ultimately leads our best and brightest to flee well before we want them to.

The last 5-6 years have seen a dramtic shift in what defines a solid, promotable record. Going to sea, getting a Master's was considered pretty much the ticket to O4 up until just a year or two ago. Better than half of the non-selects for O-4 this year went PCS afloat, and several of them also have a Master's. Seems to prove the notion that it doesn't matter where you are placed, you have to "grow where you are planted". Also, it seems to suggest the desired milestones prior to O4/O5 to be less milestone and more a description of what we typically do as ENS-LT. However, any analysis of the results is largely just anecdotal and do not factor in YG strength, each individual's performance, constraints within commands (which depend upon detailing, utilization, personality, etc), additional community requirements which are not and will not be reflected in a brief, and on, and on. After years of trying to understand what i need to do be of best use to the Navy and to myself, i have come around to the realization that I'd rather just detail to something interesting that fascinates me, do my best, and plan for either continued service beyond next year's results or a transition into something as a civilian which fascinates me. I've foolishly wasted way too much time and effort trying to figure out crap I have no hope of controlling. My paper record, FITREPs notwithstanding, is virtually the same as several of those who were selected and the same as several of those who didn't. At this point, I'd rather just focus on enjoying my job.
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Re: FY-14 O-4 Selection Board

Postby COMEVIL » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:18 am

LIVINGIW wrote:We all have a responsibility to step aside when our time is up, whether driven by choice or circumstance.


Really? We are talking service to the Nation, right? If someone has more to give I say let them stay and continue to serve, promotable or not.
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Re: FY-14 O-4 Selection Board

Postby arvizo » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:43 am

COMEVIL wrote:
LIVINGIW wrote:We all have a responsibility to step aside when our time is up, whether driven by choice or circumstance.


Really? We are talking service to the Nation, right? If someone has more to give I say let them stay and continue to serve, promotable or not.

The problem is the people who are simply collecting a paycheck. Being employed by the government does not mean that person is actually being productive. I have worked with many military and civilians and there are some out there who just show up to work, but do not produce anything. Have you never seen this? If every government employee was productive, we probably wouldn't have trillions in debt nor cities filing for bankruptcy nor the many other problems that exist in the government. :-)
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Re: FY-14 O-4 Selection Board

Postby Sleeper » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:52 am

VQ Bubba wrote:Some years we will leave outstanding people unpromoted and some years we will promote those with records that would not normally screen...but by and large a 70% promotion rate is probably about right.


According to DOPMA, an 80% promotion rate to O-4 is about right. +/- 10% is the maximum tolerance allowed. If my engineering plant were on the borderline for minimum allowed spec, I would seek corrective action.
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