IWO and IDWO PQS completion for reservists

Re: IWO and IDWO PQS completion for reservists

Postby yoshi » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:18 am

Each of the 'Big Four' should have a training officer (usually in the N7) which should be able to assist with the qualification process in the course of their normal duties. This is analogous to the role of the Train-O on a ship (whether collateral duty or actual billet). That said, the 'Big 4' can sometimes be very different from common Navy structure, culture, and reality. So, be prepared for anything and surprised by absolutely nothing when you arrive. I would recommend finding a way to schedule time with either an IWBC instructor or a knowledgeable officer while at Pensacola to hack out a rough schedule (POA&M) for your qualification. Then, once at one of the 'Big 4' and if there isn't a solid program/N7/Train-O in place, I would revise it accordingly, again enlisting the help of someone who has been through it to do so. However indifferent a given command may SEEM regarding your qualification, If you are proactive about your quals, the command WILL match and reward your level of effort. The NIOCs are all very different from really any other Navy command and very different again from each other. As you get into the work, you will likely become more and more interested in one aspect or another and the qualification itself will become less and less important on a personal level. There are a couple of commands out there which assign their arriving non-quals exclusively to qualification duty, complete with separate space to study most of the day. Generally, qualification comes more quickly there (~6 months to a year) than at other places (18 months to 2 years) where the arriving non-qual officer is assigned, say, a division (like it is on a ship). Pros and cons abound in both approaches to the qualification process.
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Re: IWO and IDWO PQS completion for reservists

Postby bubblehead » Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:44 pm

I posted this in a new thread:

Since IW officers must earn their PQS at the active duty NIOC, COMIDCRESCOM will fund IW officers (needing basic PQS) to go on ADT to work on their PQS for up to 120 days to their NIOC, to work on PQS. Interested officers should request this through their unit and IDC Region Training Officer.​


I recommend jumping on this opportunity...
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Re: IWO and IDWO PQS completion for reservists

Postby das » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:30 pm

bubblehead wrote:I posted this in a new thread:

Since IW officers must earn their PQS at the active duty NIOC, COMIDCRESCOM will fund IW officers (needing basic PQS) to go on ADT to work on their PQS for up to 120 days to their NIOC, to work on PQS. Interested officers should request this through their unit and IDC Region Training Officer.​


I recommend jumping on this opportunity...


That's great if people can get 4 months off from their civilian job for training (without USERRA protection), after having already taken off 2 months for IWBC the prior year.
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Re: IWO and IDWO PQS completion for reservists

Postby bubblehead » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:51 pm

das wrote:That's great if people can get 4 months off from their civilian job for training (without USERRA protection), after having already taken off 2 months for IWBC the prior year.

:confused:

das, USERRA covers all service categories (ADSW, MOB, ADT, IDT, IDTT, funeral honors duty, etc.), both voluntary and involuntary.

http://www.roa.org/site/PageServer?page ... _review_30
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Re: IWO and IDWO PQS completion for reservists

Postby das » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:24 pm

bubblehead wrote:
das wrote:That's great if people can get 4 months off from their civilian job for training (without USERRA protection), after having already taken off 2 months for IWBC the prior year.

:confused:

das, USERRA covers all service categories (ADSW, MOB, ADT, IDT, IDTT, funeral honors duty, etc.), both voluntary and involuntary.

http://www.roa.org/site/PageServer?page ... _review_30


Interesting...current brief from C10F looking at retooling the 1815 training pipeline specifically notes no USERRA protection...it would seem that is incorrect.

Still, the point about time off stands.
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Re: IWO and IDWO PQS completion for reservists

Postby bubblehead » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:41 pm

das wrote:Interesting...current brief from C10F looking at retooling the 1815 training pipeline specifically notes no USERRA protection...it would seem that is incorrect.

That would not surprise me.

das wrote:Still, the point about time off stands.

What point? People "getting" time off?
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Re: IWO and IDWO PQS completion for reservists

Postby das » Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:10 pm

bubblehead wrote:
das wrote:Interesting...current brief from C10F looking at retooling the 1815 training pipeline specifically notes no USERRA protection...it would seem that is incorrect.

That would not surprise me.

das wrote:Still, the point about time off stands.

What point? People "getting" time off?


Yes. Saying it's required by law is irrelevant, and there are a lot of ways that civilian jobs can be severely adversely impacted by continual extended absences for training, vs. mobilization/deployment, which is an entirely different story. No other IDC community is this way. It's fine to a point to say that IW is "different" (and it is), but that doesn't matter when it appears that the community has done nothing for IW reservists beyond suggesting ~4 months on active duty after IWBC, which itself has no reserve format. Only recently (read: when numerous IW reservists started bumping into the 3-year time limit) has there been any movement on change. Positive change is possible when a even just a few individuals decide to make things better.
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Re: IWO and IDWO PQS completion for reservists

Postby Schlag » Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:33 am

das wrote:Saying it's required by law is irrelevant...

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Re: IWO and IDWO PQS completion for reservists

Postby bubblehead » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:14 pm

das wrote:Yes. Saying it's required by law is irrelevant, and there are a lot of ways that civilian jobs can be severely adversely impacted by continual extended absences for training, vs. mobilization/deployment, which is an entirely different story.

The bottom line is that people coming into the programs (INTEL, IP, IW) know or should know the expectations with respect to completing their PQS and their IDWO.

The IW community has a standard that RC and AC IW's qualify via the exact same process. There is no "Reserve version" and I suspect that there will never be one. This is known in the community.

Qualifying by only doing the 1 weekend a month / 2 weeks a year is completely unrealistic. Heck, even INTEL officers cannot do it. In doing my INTEL PQS and IDWO, I had to come on orders a few times.
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Re: IWO and IDWO PQS completion for reservists

Postby das » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:43 pm

bubblehead wrote:
das wrote:Yes. Saying it's required by law is irrelevant, and there are a lot of ways that civilian jobs can be severely adversely impacted by continual extended absences for training, vs. mobilization/deployment, which is an entirely different story.

The bottom line is that people coming into the programs (INTEL, IP, IW) know or should know the expectations with respect to completing their PQS and their IDWO.

The IW community has a standard that RC and AC IW's qualify via the exact same process. There is no "Reserve version" and I suspect that there will never be one. This is known in the community.

Qualifying by only doing the 1 weekend a month / 2 weeks a year is completely unrealistic. Heck, even INTEL officers cannot do it. In doing my INTEL PQS and IDWO, I had to come on orders a few times.


I agree with you, but it has not at all been clear, even to people who are very close to the process, what was required of IW reservists. The community itself still hasn't really completely figured it out, and it is not at all consistent between the NIOCs. Significant changes are likely to be coming soon. I am not arguing there should be a reserve format IWBC, but it is a fact of life because of community size and other reasons that there is a reserve format NIOBIC, and not a reserve format IWBC.

The PA specifies that you have three years to qualify. Assuming that you are doing one set of active duty orders per year — which, given everything a normal person can be expected to discern about the program, would probably be what they planned for — your first your is DCOIC, your second year is IWBC, leaving your third and final year as the only year to qualify — and manage a potentially significant amount of time on active duty. RC unit leadership, especially at austere NIOCs not colocated with one of the Big Four, has tended to have an attitude (partly because they qualified 10, 15, or more years ago, many on active duty, and were grandfathered on IDWO; and partly because there has been no way for them to know any better) that everything will "work out".

Our community leadership says that a RC IW JO's "number one priority" should be becoming qualified. Ok, so how does that work when your command has no training program, plan, or guidance, and when the entirety of the drill weekend is spent doing admin or other tasks? Before someone says, "that's just how it is," at least RC INTEL has 18 (?) months worth of drill weekends to do something related to their discipline before coming back to be the admin or training officer (or both). The IP community has decided to run community-wide teleconferences, VTCs, boot camps, ship rides, and conferences for the sole purpose of getting their community qualified. Sure, going on extended/multiple active duty orders is the best way to learn — but what about people who can't realistically do that? Are we saying, implicitly, that we don't want them in our community? It's bad enough that we take people with PhDs in CS or people who are working cyber every day throughout the IC, only for them to realize they will be able to do little to nothing with their expertise in the Navy until they're probably a senior-level O-3, or O-4.

Now, all of this has gotten much better at Georgia, thanks to the hard work of the folks down there. There are ways to manage this process without needing to be on orders for 4 months...my experience with the qualification process is proof of that. But we need realistic guidance, and we need to be flexible.
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